This transcript has been auto generated
00;00;05;01 - 00;00;23;02
Meg Pekarske
Hello and welcome to Hospice Insights: The Law and Beyond where we connect you to what matters in the ever changing world of hospice and palliative care. A Year in Review: Reflections and Hopes for the Future. Bryan, my favorite podcast partner. Thanks for joining.
00;00;23;09 - 00;00;25;02
Bryan Nowicki
Meg, my favorite podcast host.
00;00;25;29 - 00;00;29;07
Meg Pekarske
I know, well I turned you on to podcasts, so.
00;00;29;07 - 00;00;37;17
Bryan Nowicki
Yes, I was not a believer, but boy, it's been how many years since we've been doing this. And I just love them. I love doing them. I love doing them with you.
00;00;37;28 - 00;01;18;18
Meg Pekarske
Yeah. So I changed this app on you, Bryan It's sort of last minute because a couple months ago I recorded this podcast with Greg Grabowski and I did this whole thing, here are five questions, you think about them, and then we both think about them, and then we share on prompts like not sharing before, but all live on this and this podcast, what we think about what happened for our podcast in this previous year and like what we think about the future.
00;01;18;18 - 00;01;33;27
Meg Pekarske
So this time anyway, Bryan, this is like lightning round because when we talked about year in review there's there has been a lot of things that have gone on, but I think we didn't want to do a laundry list, so kind to shake it up.
00;01;34;18 - 00;01;45;23
Bryan Nowicki
Yeah. No, I'm glad you gave me the head's up a few hours ago. I've been putting some thought into this, so. Yeah, let me know. Fire away and I will. I'll answer off the top of my head.
00;01;46;05 - 00;01;53;26
Meg Pekarske
Okay, first question, Bryan, our biggest victory of 2024 for our team.
00;01;54;14 - 00;02;19;07
Bryan Nowicki
For our team. Oh, boy. I was if you if you made it if you made that plural victories. I have a number of you know, I do a lot of the audits. I kind of lead that group. And so I think about the attorneys on the team that do audits and the audits that I do. But I guess let me go back to your question.
00;02;19;07 - 00;02;42;00
Bryan Nowicki
The biggest victory as a team, looking back, I think it would be this is kind of internal, but how we the team over the past year, a year ago, we had kind of a set number of attorneys. And over the past year we've brought on a number of new associates. We've developed some associates who had just got started with us.
00;02;42;27 - 00;03;05;13
Bryan Nowicki
And looking back, I'm very proud of how all of them have really grown into their roles on the team as attorneys and be able to put a lot of trust in them, give them responsibility, know that they're doing the right work. They're super smart because I mean, you got to be to be a part of our law firm.
00;03;06;11 - 00;03;23;19
Bryan Nowicki
But they're just good people and they're very professional. And I just see that as a great victory over the past year, and it makes me kind of happy about the future, too. Yeah, we've got a great foundation. We already had a foundation, but the foundation is bigger now and we have even more to build upon going forward.
00;03;24;04 - 00;03;54;05
Meg Pekarske
No, I think that that is a great reflection. And and I think the energy that that new people adding to our team and bring is is really wonderful. I what I made up this question I immediately thought like because there's not we have many many victories but the thing that got me like yes so maybe now I'm going to have to have you gas, but I think I'm going to say.
00;03;54;28 - 00;03;56;17
Bryan Nowicki
Okay, why.
00;03;56;17 - 00;03;57;19
Meg Pekarske
Do you think I'm going to say.
00;03;58;13 - 00;04;10;24
Bryan Nowicki
Well, I would something that you and I worked on together had to do with this preliminary enforcement. And we got some bill. A bill revocation.
00;04;10;25 - 00;04;11;20
Meg Pekarske
Termination.
00;04;11;28 - 00;04;25;08
Bryan Nowicki
Yeah, the revocation of building privileges, which was set to be revoked. We convinced CMS to rescind that after a lot of investigation and research and phone calls with CMS. Is that that I guess, right?
00;04;25;08 - 00;05;03;02
Meg Pekarske
Yes, that is great. It's like Bryan and I working together for 15 years like this is you read my mind, but that had that feeling of like other big cases we find like these giant extrapolations in the past 40 million, 25 million, and like just, I don't know, I don't want to say it's the magic of being a lawyer, but like when you can really get the right result for someone and do great advocacy and, you know, that was make it or break it and we made it and they can survive into the future because of the work we did.
00;05;03;02 - 00;05;27;16
Meg Pekarske
So and that was that tremendous victory, which obviously you hope never has to happen again. But with the rise in all of this provisional type stuff that's going to be borne to 2025, my guess is that is not the the last one. That's not in my hopes category, the future. That is sort of the but I think our biggest victory was dealing with that and successfully.
00;05;27;16 - 00;05;49;06
Meg Pekarske
And I think like how we've grown the practice over the years as the government is changing how it's doing things and because we do so much of this work, I feel like when these things happen, they're usually never the first time they happen for us. Obviously there always is a first time like this was the first time we had to deal with this termination in this context.
00;05;49;06 - 00;06;12;00
Meg Pekarske
But then the next time that happens, you can really be that steady and like we're talking, we've dealt with so many day activations of Medicare billing numbers this year and stuff like that. Like you can be a steady hand when someone's trying dealing with what is, you know, could be the end of their business and having an experience behind you.
00;06;12;00 - 00;06;14;16
Meg Pekarske
Like I've seen this through successfully.
00;06;15;02 - 00;06;44;17
Bryan Nowicki
Yeah, it reminded me of other occasions and hospice changes so much that you and I have experienced this many times over the years when there is that new thing and just the excitement of getting the brain trust together, you and me. And it's been great associates through the through the years. And this this was also a situation where we had other attorneys involved and we're really just peeling this apart and how do we solve this problem for the client?
00;06;45;05 - 00;07;08;27
Bryan Nowicki
It's relatively new, so there's really no boundaries for us. We can be open minded, be creative, and a lot of energy goes into figuring out how to crack that nut. And and this kind of reminded me of those other instances. And they they happen every year. And this was one of them where I think it is kind of where the magic happened in in our used to be conference rooms.
00;07;08;27 - 00;07;16;26
Bryan Nowicki
But now to meetings where we hash things out and and we end up on the successful side. So that was that was really exciting.
00;07;17;25 - 00;07;35;27
Meg Pekarske
Well, and part of that relentless finding a way like it's easy to say stocks like I don't know and then you just find a way and you ask a lot of good questions because I think good lawyers ask good questions. So I guess I'm saying we're good lawyers.
00;07;35;27 - 00;08;04;11
Bryan Nowicki
Bryan Yeah, yeah, I would agree with you. I concur and, and I think the proof is we've had a lot of success. And yeah, it reminded me earlier this year you had mentioned extrapolation where we've won those reparations went away for a long time. But then they came back and we had some hearings at the first part of this year, just going back to January, February, where there was a next next round of extrapolations.
00;08;04;27 - 00;08;25;11
Bryan Nowicki
And we were able to take a DOJ hearing and went on those. And Emily saw some of our our team was instrumental in all of that. So it was good to see them bring back that, good to see them bring back extrapolation. But the fact that they did and we were still able to push back and win on those, we do have more extrapolations.
00;08;25;11 - 00;08;53;08
Bryan Nowicki
I think extrapolations are again something that Clare Claremont and safeguard the you fix are willing to do but we've been through that battle we continue to go so far fingers crossed or knock on wood have the secret sauce to push back on those and on a on a personal level is business related but yeah but we have have had all of these, we call them CPI audits, Center for Program Integrity.
00;08;54;17 - 00;09;25;15
Bryan Nowicki
We took one to hearing that was the highest dollar value one we've had $1.7 million, 381 claims and got a fully favorable decision. So that was back in April and May and know those kinds of win that we don't win all the time. We don't we're not bad in a thousand, but we're doing awfully good relative what what the average win rate is out there for these kinds for all kinds of audits and it's great to have a fully favorable like that.
00;09;25;19 - 00;09;49;06
Bryan Nowicki
We get a lot of a lot of partially favorable. We just got one today. All the patients were favorable except one was half favorable. They call that a partially favorable. But, you know, when 95% call it whatever you want, we went 95%. So that was really those kinds of specific audit related stuff is really gratifying. And to see that we have a team now is going to be able to continue that.
00;09;49;08 - 00;10;26;13
Meg Pekarske
Well, I also think it's helpful, I think, to do this year in review because I think as humans were able to like, oh, you had this great thing comes and then you forget about it two days later and then like that feels like a lifetime ago, like May or June. Thank right. So I think it's really helpful to do this reflection back because a lot of wonderful things have, I don't want to say happened because it's unfortunate they happened in the first place, but that we were able to, you know, steer people through hard times and come out the other other end.
00;10;26;14 - 00;10;33;00
Meg Pekarske
So. All right. Second question, biggest surprise of 2020 for the hospice world.
00;10;34;02 - 00;10;38;09
Bryan Nowicki
Well, I I'm pretty confident mine is the same as yours.
00;10;38;09 - 00;10;39;08
Meg Pekarske
Okay.
00;10;39;08 - 00;10;45;10
Bryan Nowicki
So it's going to be the discontinuation of Medicare Advantage there, right? I know.
00;10;45;21 - 00;11;06;21
Meg Pekarske
Exactly. And that was like January 20, 24, I think, because I was thinking like, oh, did it feels again so like a lifetime ago. But I would have bet lots of money if I was a betting person. Like, Oh yeah, that's for sure going to happen. I mean, I talk to clients like, yeah, I really think for sure that it's going to happen.
00;11;06;29 - 00;11;14;10
Meg Pekarske
And then it, at least for now, pulled the plug. I mean, you never know. But yeah, I agree. That was the biggest surprise.
00;11;14;23 - 00;11;42;24
Bryan Nowicki
Yeah. And that was something that you and I have been preparing for. You know, we always I think you say some people say stay, stay a step ahead, but you're more like eight or nine steps ahead, which keeps us on the cutting edge. And so we had been preparing for that for however, since it was announced because we kind of saw that that could have helpful for really changing the regulatory and enforcement environment what's going to happen with audits.
00;11;42;24 - 00;12;07;07
Bryan Nowicki
So we were we were staying a step ahead of the government. We were planning on helping hospices different ways for a long time. And and that that changed everything. It's it's it didn't change everything. It changed our focus kind of and now we're back to audits. And audits are going to be with us for a probably a long time to come unless unless or until something substantial changes.
00;12;07;07 - 00;12;28;19
Bryan Nowicki
Again. But yeah, for all the investment we had in trying to stay way ahead of the government and be ready for whatever happens for that change, you know, and then for us, we're kind of bounced back and we're back to where what's in our wheelhouse with audits, which did continue and they did seem to, if anything, pick up.
00;12;29;16 - 00;12;38;20
Bryan Nowicki
And it just seems into the future. Audits are going to be a part of doing business and a bigger part, unfortunately, than they were even five, six years ago.
00;12;38;29 - 00;13;10;15
Meg Pekarske
Well, maybe I'm going to throw some my hopefulness. I'm still hoping that through industry advocacy, we could rightsize these audits in a way that makes sense, because this is just duplication of effort, needless spending of government money on things that like, you know, you just found like I'm doing everything, you got a fully favorable ALJ decision and then like two months later you get audited and the same kinds of issues like that's wrongheaded.
00;13;10;15 - 00;13;57;27
Meg Pekarske
So I'm hopeful in the future that we can make some inroads and that's not a good use of anyone's resources. So. Oh, well, I guess that brings us like dovetails great into our wish list for 2025. So my wish list would be, you know, trying to rightsize the enforcement because it's becoming so, so, so burdensome. And just even if I worked for the government, I think I just in terms of taxpayer dollars like doing that, but I guess trying to better understand where do we think the problem people are?
00;13;57;28 - 00;14;26;23
Meg Pekarske
Because I get you don't want to pay and chase and all that stuff. But like and you and I have been pushing for this for a while is making sure that they're looking retrospectively in how cases end up, not how they start in terms of like, is this a good return on investment? Is this are the data analysis that we're using to identify targets really the right data analytics that should be driving this?
00;14;26;23 - 00;15;02;15
Meg Pekarske
Or is there something else? And so I my wish list is that we're really able to make some meaningful progress on changing the enforcement landscape in a way that is more aligned with the goals of enforcement, which is to discourage bad behavior, not people who are following, like people who just arbitrarily discharge people because they don't want to get audited or have a cap issue or something like that's not doing hospice the right way.
00;15;02;15 - 00;15;23;05
Meg Pekarske
So like, but you know, that that's sort of I feel like people are feeling like, well, but is that what the government's wanting to do right? Like, I'm going to get audited if I don't discharge people, but then by a lot of discharge people that I'm going to get audited. I mean, we just got a question from someone today about that.
00;15;23;05 - 00;15;28;25
Meg Pekarske
Like, tell me what's the right thing to do here? Because I'm getting these mixed messages.
00;15;29;14 - 00;16;07;06
Bryan Nowicki
Yeah. And that, you know, talking about our wish list for 2025, mine was mine was similar and kind of wishing that CMS and maybe it's the new administration with fresh ideas can you see the value of hospice and then have their regulations and enforcement priorities fall into line? So I think it was in the last couple of years, we got a really a study from a rather reputable source at the University of Chicago that really applied economic theory to say hospices save Medicare money.
00;16;07;29 - 00;16;33;02
Bryan Nowicki
And it's not just the short stay. Hospice patients, it's especially the ones who are on service for a year. And I think if if that kind of barrier can be broken down in the government and CMS, which I think just has a a entirely negative perception of longer length of stay patients as a burden on the hospice system or a burden on Medicare.
00;16;33;19 - 00;17;06;03
Bryan Nowicki
And instead see that actually there's cost savings involved in Medicare patients who outlive their six month prognosis. And I think if it's if they could change their perception and this might evolve or evolve into more fundamental changes in the benefit, like is it really a six month prognosis that should be guiding this? And we get to that six month prognosis and all the battles that we fight are but one doctor says this and another doctor says that and a judge says something else.
00;17;06;23 - 00;17;29;26
Bryan Nowicki
Are those really productive debates? Is it even reasonable to have that debate where you have qualified physicians all around? They're all saying they disagree with one another. So is it really right to pick a winner in that or can we just acknowledge physicians have different views and those are not the hospices the enforcement should be aimed at. Go after the fraudsters.
00;17;29;26 - 00;18;09;18
Bryan Nowicki
So, I mean, I've I've when I talk to clients, I talk a lot about the wide net that CMS throws out there. And I've been critical of it being wide because it does capture a lot of very good hospices on these very debatable positions, both clinically and with documentation. And what I think we've learned over the past year or two is that there are plenty of fraudsters out there and a lot of hospices scratching their heads about why aren't these fraudsters being weeded out when you see 50 hospices all being operated out of the same office building.
00;18;09;29 - 00;18;38;14
Bryan Nowicki
So why don't you devote attention to that and just clear house there? And I'm sure I'm oversimplifying it in a way that seems to tell me I'm oversimplifying that. But just hopefully with the fresh perspective and open mindedness, we'll see a different approach to hospices that really value what hospices do for patients, but also financially for the Medicare trust fund and then kind of revise what they're doing accordingly.
00;18;38;14 - 00;19;09;18
Meg Pekarske
Well, and I guess along those lines, and it's less like government do something different, but more sort of on our own volition is I used the whole don't be a one trick pony. Like I really hope that hospices see the skills and strengths they have and apply them to a broader audience and not just be like, Well, I'm only here for this short time in someone's life, which is very valuable.
00;19;10;21 - 00;19;44;00
Meg Pekarske
But I think in some of the board presentations I've been doing, which are the most fun part not to talk about big audits, but like strategic planning and, and what not is getting out of our own silo of this is what I do. And start with the question like what needs does my community have and how do they match up with my strengths and and making investments in things that align in those ways.
00;19;44;00 - 00;20;27;11
Meg Pekarske
And I think when you put that down on paper, not everything has to be a bricks and mortar kind of experience, but really like, you know, it can be a hospice adjacent. And I mean, I think we've had many podcasts talking about opportunities for upstream and all of that and working with different payers. But I just, I think it's starting, but I still think a wider net of hospices to diversify and see themselves as more that just, you know, I provide palliative care to people who say they don't want to curative care anymore.
00;20;27;11 - 00;21;01;19
Meg Pekarske
And, and I guess other wish list too is hope that palliative care can really be developed in a way that's, you know, an option and revenue stream for people who don't want to give up curative treatment. Because to your point, Bryan, I mean, there's there's cost savings for someone who hospice. But I think even if you're on palliative care and getting curative treatment, maybe the choices you'll make will be different and that these trajectory is part of being on palliative care.
00;21;01;23 - 00;21;29;14
Meg Pekarske
So I just think hopefully getting palliative care off the ground, add some type of meaningful way even outside of like a demonstration project because as we've all lived through Medicare care choices and all of that stuff, you can put a lot of energy into demonstration projects that that never turn into benefit. So again, I think not just waiting for well, the government needs to change the rules and the government needs to create a benefit.
00;21;29;14 - 00;22;02;04
Meg Pekarske
But you know, the flexibility, there's some flexibility with the Medicare Advantage on, you know, non hospice related things and potentially other payers for, you know, their high cost patient population. So I think my wish list is that we get to as lawyers also help guide them through those kinds of growth opportunities and not just fighting with the government, which well happily do.
00;22;02;04 - 00;22;11;07
Meg Pekarske
But I think, you know, helping people grow and transform to better serve their communities. So that's on my wish list.
00;22;12;27 - 00;22;35;04
Bryan Nowicki
So and Maggie, I know your you had kind of said these are some general areas you're going to ask about. And one of them was what brings joy and and what gives me hope as far as bringing me joy. I that's that's where I put in this this idea of helping hospices, which are made up of good people.
00;22;35;16 - 00;23;03;11
Bryan Nowicki
I mean, you know, I didn't always represent hospices for the first ten plus years. I represented a lot of different business clients. But once I started representing hospices and just seeing the dedication and mission driven nature of the people and the leadership and the clinicians, just to be able to help facilitate their ability to provide care. And then, as you mentioned, now it's becoming an increasingly competitive area out there.
00;23;03;27 - 00;23;24;15
Bryan Nowicki
Hospices and all providers are looking for ways to grow. And I think of it as hospices. You'll have the best caregivers out there. And the more they can spread the kind of work they do and even expand into different areas, you know, hospice people are going to have their heart in the right place. They're going to do the right thing.
00;23;24;15 - 00;23;56;07
Bryan Nowicki
They cannot provide value and they're going to save people money, but they're also going to provide value to people's health and their kind of mental, emotional, spiritual well-being. So being able to try to facilitate them, getting outside what may be their comfort zone and finding different ways to spread, to have them spread, the joy that they bring or the comfort that they bring, knowing that I am a part of that, that's what I found I find really rewarding.
00;23;56;07 - 00;24;19;26
Bryan Nowicki
And that's really changed over the past couple of years as I've I've really focused on audits. But, but now I'm kind of looking beyond audits into just what is the business and how can we solve all of your business problems and kind of make you be ready to take on the future in any way that matches your mission, your interest, your your skills.
00;24;20;15 - 00;24;21;26
Bryan Nowicki
And it's great to be a part of that.
00;24;22;14 - 00;24;52;23
Meg Pekarske
Yeah, I completely agree. And I think, you know, I want this kind of care to be around for me when I need it, which is hopefully the good. When I turned 50 here in my waning days of my 40th decade of life, as I turn 50 here right after the new year, like I want to build be part of building a health care system that I want to care for me when I need that.
00;24;53;26 - 00;25;29;02
Meg Pekarske
And I think that and and again, when I was putting together thoughts for this strategic planning meeting, for this board of like and I, I don't maybe want to go to a facility. I want to have care in my home and I want to like communicate with technology through technology. And I want to, you know, building, helping build a model of care for the future that's going to align with how I would want care, which is, you know, typically I think most people feel like if I can stay at home, I want to do that and and how.
00;25;29;02 - 00;25;54;29
Meg Pekarske
But right now, the hospice benefit really has some donuts in it, right? Like it doesn't provide 24 seven care outside of GP and a few days of respite like there is a real need for, for, you know, how do you feel. And I've shared this on other podcast of, you know, people caring for a caregiver, doing caring for their dying loved one.
00;25;54;29 - 00;26;21;07
Meg Pekarske
I mean, that is a lot, especially if you're elderly on top of that. And how are there more resources as people maybe don't have family close by or they don't have children? Like how do we care for people where maybe the same community is that there to support people? And so how do we as a health care community sort of meet that need and support?
00;26;21;07 - 00;26;49;28
Meg Pekarske
People are because they think that, you know something I talk about with my friends because a number of us don't have kids as like like you, but maybe your eight kids could take care of me. But I'm old and infirm, but like, you know, who's going to be there to care for you? And I think there's a migraine population of people who don't have, you know, immediate family there and available.
00;26;49;28 - 00;27;18;00
Meg Pekarske
And so what does that look like and how can we help support people in that process? So I think this whole patient driven, which is that buzz word, I feel like for decades and nursing home patient centered care and stuff. But I think sort of getting back to the roots of what that means and hopefully like that is something that can really transform health care because in some ways we're very innovative in health care.
00;27;19;05 - 00;27;43;11
Meg Pekarske
And I think technology is going to be a really tremendous tool for the future. And so I think why can't we as hospice be on the forefront of some of that? Because more and more we're going to be dying chronic illness like older and older, and there's going to be a need for that. And we're going to have to be caring for technologically literate people who are.
00;27;43;21 - 00;28;03;05
Meg Pekarske
So I think starting to build models of care that meet these needs into the future, because I think it's going to be very different. The patients, what patients want now or is very different than in 20 years from now, but how patients want to get their care.
00;28;03;05 - 00;28;32;00
Bryan Nowicki
So yeah, just just as 20 years ago it was very different though. And just I mean, a couple of observation. First, you mentioned donuts in a way I've never heard donuts mentioned before. So I was distracted. I started thinking about donuts. So I may have missed some of what you said, but. But yeah. And as far as as my eight kids, we'd be happy to provide you whether you need routine home care or VIP or just whatever the per diem we can charge you, we will get that.
00;28;32;00 - 00;29;01;06
Bryan Nowicki
But then it going back to kind of hospice is kind of so try trying to meet the competition and it's all about patient care. How could you serve patients in your community? And I think hospices should realize they can probably meet those needs better than better than anybody if they think outside the box a bit. They have a lot of value to offer to their community and to patients based upon the skills they already have.
00;29;01;24 - 00;29;07;04
Bryan Nowicki
And don't keep it to yourself and to think about how you can how you can extend yourself.
00;29;07;25 - 00;29;36;08
Meg Pekarske
Well, I'm going to say I'm going to remove the word patient humans. That's not even think of ourselves as patients, but how do we provide loving care to other humans? Because some of the stuff that people need isn't a patient clinician relationship. Like all of the stuff about social determinants of health and how we can help people live, not just a long life.
00;29;36;08 - 00;30;02;19
Meg Pekarske
And I can't remember the word, but what's increasing is hopefully the life you have that you are well, right like and how can we support people in their wildness and you know because hopefully or just caring for humans that our community and then you know because I feel like ultimately that's what it's all about is how can we be of service in the world?
00;30;02;24 - 00;30;12;20
Meg Pekarske
So that's what my 50 year old almost brain is is telling me about what the second half of what I want my life to be about too, so.
00;30;13;05 - 00;30;37;18
Bryan Nowicki
Yeah. And I think kind of one, one event that happened recently that kind of shows how hospices can flex themselves and to be helpful to the community I've heard of, you know, hospices provide bereavement care and we're aware, Meg, you and I are aware of hospices who are partnering with other providers in other parts of their community to provide bereavement care where it's needed.
00;30;37;18 - 00;30;59;16
Bryan Nowicki
And here in the Madison area, there was just a school shooting. That is very shocking. I'm sure it's shocking for every community it happens to. And you never think it's going to happen in your community, but it really brings home the need for humans. And these are not hospice patients. These are teachers, children. They're dealing with something really significant and serious.
00;31;00;04 - 00;31;27;25
Bryan Nowicki
Hospice people have some skills that can be useful in that situation. And, you know, don't don't buy it by what I would encourage hospice is not to think you're in this box of only helping a certain category of humans. There's a lot of good you can do for a lot of different kinds of humans with your skills and just be open minded and see what you what good you can do in the world and you'll going to find it really rewarding.
00;31;28;02 - 00;31;38;11
Bryan Nowicki
It's kind of how I have found I kind of went outside the kinds of clients I ordinarily had represented and then found a lot of joy in extending myself into a new area.
00;31;38;20 - 00;31;47;18
Meg Pekarske
It's just because I was so charming. Bryan. That's why you came over. It's my charm that has made you stay, not the work you nature.
00;31;47;26 - 00;31;51;01
Bryan Nowicki
You saw through your saw through me. So that's exactly it.
00;31;52;07 - 00;32;15;27
Meg Pekarske
But yeah, I think both of us have been transformed by the work we do in good place. So I feel like I'm a better human for it. So onward and 2025 of being anything to develop and be a better human. That's what my hope is. Art and I can only do what I like, what I can control of myself.
00;32;15;27 - 00;32;25;04
Meg Pekarske
But it's my goal for the future. What I'm hopeful about is I can continue to be of better and better service in the world.
00;32;25;15 - 00;32;27;26
Bryan Nowicki
So I think that's a good goal for everybody.
00;32;28;28 - 00;33;01;04
Meg Pekarske
All right, Paul, it's been a great year and thank you for doing this with me. Bryan. I really appreciate you and grateful for our whole team that that helps us and really grateful for our clients who trust us and work really hard, things that mean everything to their business. And so it's a great responsibility, but it's something that I think our team leads into and really it feels remarkable to be trusted with big problems to solve.
00;33;01;12 - 00;33;02;28
Bryan Nowicki
So I'm looking forward.
00;33;02;28 - 00;33;03;00
Meg Pekarske
To.
00;33;03;14 - 00;33;07;25
Bryan Nowicki
I'm looking forward to the next set of challenges because I don't think there's anything we can't overcome.
00;33;09;03 - 00;33;15;07
Meg Pekarske
Wow. We're just so optimistic. Bryan. Yes, bring on the bell or something.
00;33;15;07 - 00;33;22;14
Bryan Nowicki
We'll see how this year beats us down. Yeah, I mean, we get beat down from time to time, but we're like the Phoenix. We rise again.
00;33;23;01 - 00;33;31;04
Meg Pekarske
Yeah. So this will be our first podcast released in the New Year. So by that time, I will be 50, so.
00;33;31;18 - 00;33;33;24
Bryan Nowicki
Well, happy birthday.
00;33;33;24 - 00;33;42;09
Meg Pekarske
Happy birthday. I'll probably be away when this releases. Having fun doing something cool.
00;33;42;19 - 00;33;44;28
Bryan Nowicki
I will read all the fan mail for you as it pours in.
00;33;44;28 - 00;34;13;03
Meg Pekarske
Thank you, thank you. As it pours in. Awesome. Well, thanks as always Bryan and thank you for our listeners and if there's things you want us to cover in 2025 podcast, you always email me and and we really want this to be of service and useful to you as our listeners. So always shoot me an email. And then if you like our podcasts, you always rate us because that helps people find us.
00;34;13;04 - 00;34;43;03
Meg Pekarske
And I actually do look at that, our rating on Spotify and Apple and so so thank you for those who do that but if you if you do like our podcast, what we do, because is the labor of love, takes time to do it, that would be great and happy 2025 to all of our listeners. Well, that's it for today's episode of Hospice Insights: The Law and Beyond.
00;34;43;17 - 00;34;56;24
Meg Pekarske
Thank you for joining the conversation. To subscribe to our podcast, visit our website, huschblackwell.com, or sign up wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, may the wind be at your back.